NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly speaks with China correspondent Jennifer Pak and White House correspondent Franco Ordonez about the relationship between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping.
MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
President Trump has wrapped up Day 2 of a three-day visit to Beijing. There was pomp – a lot of pomp – including an elaborate state dinner. This marks the second time China’s President Xi Jinping has hosted his American counterpart. The first was in 2017, so Trump’s first term, and back then, the U.S. president struck a hopeful tone. The next year, though, Trump launched a trade war with China, imposing tariffs and other trade restrictions. Fast forward to Trump’s second term. He hiked tariffs again, escalating to over 145% on Chinese goods. The Supreme Court eventually ruled the president’s widespread tariffs illegal. Now – 2026 – Trump is highlighting things that American and Chinese people share.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Together, we have the chance to draw on these values to create a future of greater prosperity, cooperation and happiness and peace for our children. We love our children. This region and the world – it’s a special world with the two of us united and together.
KELLY: I dug into the relationship between the two countries and the two men with NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez and China correspondent Jennifer Pak, who joined us from Beijing. We were speaking on NPR’s national security podcast Sources & Methods.
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KELLY: Franco, a lot of love and happiness and peace in this latest statement from President Trump about China. He’s invited President Xi – come to the U.S. Come pay a reciprocal visit to Washington. What gives with the shift in tone?
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, I really think Trump’s trying to turn the page. I do think President Trump is trying to kind of manage this rivalry instead of escalating it. And I think you’re seeing kind of those changes.
KELLY: Meanwhile, Jennifer, I was fascinated by this video that, I guess, China’s foreign ministry put out this week promoting peaceful coexistence.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: The Earth is too small for China and the U.S. to turn against and confront each other. And the Pacific Ocean is vast enough for both to prosper in their own ways. China and the U.S. must coexist peacefully on this planet for all time to come. A ready and open China is right here. It is now for the U.S. to choose the right course.
KELLY: OK. Apparently, we’re going to peacefully coexist and have a lot of seagulls flying past in the background. Again, that is from China’s Foreign Ministry, Jennifer, when they say, you know, China is right here – it is for the U.S to choose the right course – what is the right course, from China’s point of view, for this relationship?
JENNIFER PAK: Analysts I spoke to say both sides really do want stability – maybe in the U.S., you don’t call it that – but for very different reasons. On China’s side, China just wants stability because internally there’s a lot going on. So the economy is sluggish. Unemployment is high. And then you have Trump’s tariffs. Add on the Iran war. That’s disrupting all of the supply chains. It’s not helping its exporters. That’s problematic because exports are what’s driving the Chinese economy at this point. So it just wants things to calm down.
But longer-term, China has always believed that the U.S. is out to suppress and contain its rise. And I spoke to an analyst, John Czin with the Brookings Institution and former China analyst at the CIA, and he says that’s actually not changed at all. And he says, you know, for this summit and for any future engagement with the U.S., right now, he thinks China just wants to buy time.
JOHN CZIN: Is they’re really looking to buy time and space and relief from U.S. pressure so they can fortify themselves for the next round of contestation with the United States.
KELLY: So let me bring this summit portion of our conversation toward a close by asking you each to answer. What would count as a successful summit when this wraps on Friday? Jennifer, you first. For China, what would count as this went well?
PAK: Oh, I think this is already a success. I think both sides are definitely going to claim it’s a success, no matter what, because the bar was super low to begin with. And so the fact that these two leaders could even meet was meant to symbolize that these two countries can work together. This is Shen Dingli. He’s a Shanghai-based international relations professor, and he said China does know that Trump is unpredictable. Having said that, they think he is transactional. He’s not focused on ideology.
SHEN DINGLI: China can make a good deal with the U.S. if it’s money. Investment is money, but don’t touch upon our system. Don’t touch upon Taiwan, Hong Kong, Xinjiang and Tibet.
PAK: ‘Cause these are Beijing’s red lines.
KELLY: Franco, this sounds like language President Trump can work with. It’s about money. They want a deal.
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, I kind of see, you know, this question about success on two levels. In the short term, I think you can say this has been a successful trip for the president. But I think there are longer-term impacts where we’re really going to see whether this is a success. One, again, is on Taiwan and whether the United States changes its language or if President Trump changes its language in terms of that strategic ambiguity. And then again, on Iran. Does the U.S. get China and Beijing to put more of its influence on Tehran to maybe reopen the Strait of Hormuz even more and kind of come back to the negotiating table? And then, in exchange, does China want something from the U.S. on Taiwan in order to do that?
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KELLY: That was NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez and China correspondent Jennifer Pak on the line from Beijing. We were talking on NPR’s national security podcast Sources & Methods. You can listen to our full episode wherever you get your podcasts.
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