The next is the transcript of the interview with Reps. Thomas Massie, a Kentucky Republican, and Ro Khanna, a California Democrat, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Dec. 21, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now by two Home members who pushed their colleagues into passing the invoice to launch these paperwork. Republican Thomas Massie, who’s in Garrison, Kentucky, and Democrat Ro Khanna, who joins us this morning from Palo Alto, California. It is good to have each of you right here. I need to begin with you, Congressman Massie, as a result of in these previous 48 hours, we now have seen the Justice Division acknowledge it is an incomplete launch, however they’ve put out greater than 13,000 information. They are saying extra will come. This is not every part you requested for simply but, however would you acknowledge that they’re complying with this spirit, if not the intent of your regulation?
REP. THOMAS MASSIE: No, they’re flouting the spirit and the letter of the regulation. It’s extremely troubling the posture that they’ve taken. And I will not be happy till the survivors are happy. You understand, I mentioned within the hours main as much as this launch that we’ll know if they’re complying, in the event that they implicate any of the opposite criminals which are concerned and the suspects which are concerned. The witnesses this- the victims themselves, have given to the FBI, they usually’ve by no means been talked about.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nicely, there are some disclosures in right here that appear new. Congressman Khanna. The paperwork verify that the FBI acquired a criticism about Jeffrey Epstein again in 1996 however the lady, whose title is Maria Farmer who made that criticism, mentioned federal officers didn’t observe up. She mentioned the disclosure makes her really feel redeemed, and that this was probably the greatest days of her life to see these paperwork made public. What motion would you like taken round a case like this?
REP. RO KHANNA: That was the only most vital disclosure of what we acquired. I do know Maria’s sister. She sounded the alarm in 1996, she complained to the FBI. The issue is that Epstein was so related with regulation enforcement and highly effective politicians, the FBI did nothing for a decade. Frankly, she deserves compensation. She deserves a proof, however the broader level is, Blanche was on this morning saying that Massie and I’ve an issue, that it is taking too lengthy. That is not the issue. The issue is, this was a slap within the face of survivors. What do they need? They need to know who’re the wealthy and highly effective males who visited Epstein’s rape island and coated up the abuse and the important thing paperwork that our regulation mainly mentioned wanted to be launched. The 60-count indictment that truly implicates a variety of these individuals and the prosecution memo weren’t launched. It is not concerning the timeline, it is concerning the selective concealment.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nicely, but. Proper? The Deputy Lawyer Normal mentioned there are extra disclosures that will likely be made. You consider that they won’t launch that specific half? You probably did give them some leeway for redactions.
REP. KHANNA: Nicely, initially, the redactions had been extreme. And even Harvard Regulation professors who’ve checked out which have mentioned, you’ll be able to’t redact inside communications, you’ll be able to’t redact workforce product, and the courts are going to search out that these had been extreme. However my level, and I am positive Congressman Massie can elaborate, is that we would like the information out. So if our sounding the alarm on what’s lacking goes to assist them get these information out, wonderful. However this should not be a giant doc dump. There is a fairly easy level, who raped these younger women who coated it up, and why are they getting away with it?
MARGARET BRENNAN: So that you’re saying particular issues concerning the indictment. Congressman Massie, I noticed in a video that you just posted, you had a really particular benchmark of success right here. You mentioned, you recognize there are at the least 20 males accused of intercourse crimes recognized to the FBI. How have you learnt that quantity? And have you learnt these names?
REP. MASSIE: Yeah, the survivors’ legal professionals have informed me these numbers, they usually’ve described their professions and usually, however they’ve solely given me a type of names, and I discussed that in a congressional listening to, Jess Staley. So I searched these paperwork, I did not see Jess Staley’s title, nor did I see 19 different names. And here is why we should not be optimistic that Blanche or Bondi are going to launch these items. They despatched a six web page memo to Congress and said- they cited pre-existing legal guidelines as causes that they weren’t going to observe our regulation. For example, our regulation requires them to launch info no matter embarrassment, however they’re attempting to say {that a} earlier regulation prevails when it would not. Widespread sense says it would not, the Privateness Act would not shield them from that. After which additionally, as Ro mentioned, inside communications these they’re utilizing a FOIA normal that does not apply as a result of our regulation already says they’ve to provide us inside communications
MARGARET BRENNAN: By way of the gentleman there you referenced as accused. I imply being within the doc would not essentially show prison conduct proper? By way of the redactions, what the Deputy Lawyer Normal mentioned is that they had been abiding by your regulation, and in addition a decide in New York had ordered them to take heed to victims. So that they’re claiming that info that that they had initially even printed Friday they needed to pull down as a result of they had been attempting to guard victims. You are not- you do not sound satisfied that they’re abiding by, you recognize, this intent?
REP. MASSIE: No, they don’t seem to be abiding. And all three judges who launched the grand jury materials mentioned that our regulation trumps the prior regulation. That is simply widespread sense. Regulation college 101. But Todd Blanche is utilizing a special concept that would not survive first contact with any courtroom, which is he is attempting to say that prior legal guidelines override our regulation. That is not the best way this works.
MARGARET BRENNAN : Okay, what are you going to do about it, to power them to conform? I imply, are you able to do something?
REP. MASSIE: Oh, completely. Look, individuals have talked about- and by the best way, Todd Blanche is the face of this, nevertheless it’s actually the Lawyer Normal’s Workplace, Pam Bondi, who’s accountable. And there are a number of methods to get at this. Some take longer. Some are shorter. The quickest method, and I feel most expeditious method, to get justice for these victims is to carry inherent contempt towards Pam Bondi, and that does not require going by way of the courts and provides her and, and- mainly Ro Khanna and I are speaking about and drafting that proper now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, effectively, I imply, on one other community this morning, Democratic Senator Tim Kaine mentioned, impeachment or contempt, it’s untimely, Congressman Khanna. And the Deputy Lawyer Normal mentioned, “carry it on.” They aren’t taking this very significantly. And in case you simply do not have the mathematics within the Senate, together with, at the least now this Democratic senator not being satisfied, would not that form of present that you just’re on the restrict of stress?
REP. KHANNA: No, we solely want the Home for inherent contempt, and we’re constructing a bipartisan coalition, and it might wonderful Pam Bondi for daily that she’s not releasing these paperwork. I am going to let you know why, I’ve talked to the survivors, why that is such a slap within the face. One of many survivors mentioned they launched her title by accident, however they nonetheless haven’t launched the FBI file concerning the individuals who abused her at her request. And the issue right here is that there are wealthy and highly effective individuals. Everyone knows this. There are 1,200 victims. They’re wealthy and highly effective individuals who both engaged on this abuse, coated it up or had been on this island. And what the American individuals need to know is, who’re these individuals? And as an alternative of holding them accountable, Pam Bondi is breaking the regulation. And that is the corrupt system, the Epstein class that individuals are sick of. So I consider we will get bipartisan assist in holding her accountable, and a committee of Congress ought to decide whether or not these redactions are justified or not.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Someday in January, if you all come again. I assume that- that can occur. I need to ask you although Congressman Khanna, there have been photographs launched prior to now 48 hours. A few of them embody former President Invoice Clinton. There’s at the least one picture of Donald Trump. I ought to say neither man has been accused of any fallacious doing associated to Epstein, although they clearly knew him. However since Friday’s publication, we’re displaying the picture right here now. One of many footage was pulled down. There have been 15 photographs whole that had been then redacted from the DOJ web site. And it’s- it is type of onerous to see, nevertheless it’s an open drawer with a photograph of President Trump. Why do you suppose that was pulled down? As a result of the Deputy Lawyer Normal says this was victims saying that their privateness or someway their integrity was being compromised by having that picture printed.
REP. KHANNA: Nicely, I am much less involved about that picture. I do not know the information. My concern is the foremost paperwork that we all know are on the market that have not been launched, the 60-count indictment that exhibits huge monetary fraud and international interference, the prosecution memo and look–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Overseas interference?–
REP. KHANNA: –They put out these Invoice Clinton pictures- Nicely, they- there are allegations that there are international governments that doubtlessly had been concerned. And that every one wants to return out. And it wants to return out within the indictments, it wants to return out within the prosecution memos. However the actuality is, they put out these footage for Invoice Clinton. High quality, put all of it out. However do not distract from the basic difficulty, which is, who’re these highly effective individuals who had been visited rape- the rape island? I imply, they’re 1200 victims. It defies widespread sense that it was simply Epstein and- and Maxwell, they usually’re hiding one thing. And you recognize why the American individuals are so upset? My X account had MAGA supporters supporting me for the primary time, saying, you recognize, Pam Bondi whiffed, in keeping with Susan Wiles, she is breaking the regulation. She must be held accountable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are referring to the Self-importance Honest quote that the chief of employees gave, saying the “whiffed,” and he or she mentioned that Pam Bondi gave them “binders stuffed with nothingness.” After which when it got here to the consumer record, she mentioned it was on her desk. “There is no such thing as a consumer record,” quote “and it positive as hell wasn’t on her desk.” Do you see that as an acknowledgement right here, although, that, that the politics have overtaken the substance?
REP. KHANNA: No, for us, it is concerning the survivors. And in case you have a look at Thomas Massie and my feedback, the morning of the discharge, we had been giving t- Blanche the good thing about the doubt. We mentioned, if it is not all there, wonderful, simply get the data out. It is when the survivors mentioned that that is an insult, this can be a slap of their face that we do not get the reality about who these males had been on the – on rape island, that we began sounding the alarm. And that is extra paperwork of nothingness. And I suppose the query the American individuals have even to me, is, is the system so corrupt, is the system so corrupt that Thomas Massie and also you defy the chances, cross a invoice by way of a discharge petition, get the Senate, get the president to signal it, and nonetheless, these wealthy and highly effective individuals are being protected. Who has this sort of maintain on our authorities? What are they hiding? Why are they not releasing this?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nicely, you need what individuals concerned in these preliminary investigations down in Florida, re-examined and probably prosecuted?
REP. KHANNA: I would like the data out which was in that prosecution memo that Acosta disregarded, that had been in these indictments, that there have been 60 counts towards Epstein, solely two counts had been prosecuted. I need to know who had been these different individuals who had been on the Epstein’s rape island, who had been the individuals who noticed younger women being paraded round at events, 13,14,15 12 months olds, and did not say something. And why- why is it so onerous when there is a regulation requiring these names to return out? What we’re seeing is survivors’ names come out, however not the boys who abuse them. And as an alternative of, as an alternative of holding elites accountable, Pam Bondi is breaking the regulation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nicely, we are going to see if you gents come again to work someday in January, what your subsequent measures are. It sounds such as you’ve made it clear you are shifting motion towards the Lawyer Normal. Thanks each to your response at this time, Face the Nation will likely be again in a minute. Stick with us.
