NPR’s Michel Martins talks with Rep. Jim Himes, D-Conn., about what he realized in a briefing from the Navy admiral who ordered the second strike on a ship close to Venezuela.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Consultant Jim Himes of Connecticut is on the road with us now. He’s the rating Democrat on the Home Everlasting Choose Committee on Intelligence, and he was among the many lawmakers who heard from the Navy admiral who gave the order for that second strike on a ship that was allegedly concerned in drug smuggling. Congressman Himes, welcome again to MORNING EDITION.
JIM HIMES: Good morning.
MARTIN: So there have been a whole lot of totally different narratives about what occurred on that boat and to that boat. In as a lot element as you’ll be able to share, what did you see in that video that was proven to you yesterday?
HIMES: Yeah. I noticed one thing way more disturbing than different movies of deadly strikes that I’ve reviewed through the years. You realize, Individuals will probably be conscious that on occasion, in a context just like the taking out of Soleimani years in the past, this was very, very totally different. When the U.S. takes deadly strikes, normally you are speaking about any person who’s clearly an avowed enemy of america, normally a terrorist, or within the case I cited, an Iranian army commander. You realize, there’s usually weapons round, and these people are lively and operational. So that you begin with the context, which is that killing unindicted criminals – ‘trigger these individuals are criminals, not terrorists. Terrorism – terrorist has a definite that means. Killing them with out due course of, with out an arrest, that context is problematic. However what’s actually problematic and what was actually exhausting to look at yesterday, the notion that they have been going to proper their boat and proceed on their mission is solely nonsensical, and anybody who sees that video would know that.
With out stepping into an excessive amount of element, I might inform you that what you see in that video is america, for a prolonged time period – so this isn’t a fog of warfare factor – for a prolonged time period, observing two males with no weapons, with no radio. They’ve simply had an enormous munition go off over their head in such a approach that their boat has been a conflagration. I imply, I doubt that something survived that fireplace. And they’re clinging to just a little piece of wooden. Now, this was an enormous boat. This was – I imply, it is 40 ft lengthy or so. Virtually all of it’s underwater. So the notion that they might proper it after they’ve had a munition go off over their head is absurd, as is the notion that they might proper it, get into it, make it useful and proceed on their mission. So what I noticed and what I believe, you recognize, any American would see in the event that they did not know the political context was two most likely quickly to be lifeless, not due to a missile, however due to drowning, shipwrecked sailors. And america took the choice to kill them, which, as you level out, within the Pentagon guide is the very definition of a warfare crime.
MARTIN: So let me play you what Republican Senator Tom Cotton mentioned yesterday after he was briefed.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
TOM COTTON: The primary strike, the second strike and the third and the fourth strike on September 2 have been totally lawful and needful, and so they have been precisely what we might anticipate our army commanders to do.
MARTIN: You each attended the identical briefing. How do you clarify such a basically totally different interpretation?
HIMES: Nicely, you recognize, sadly, the opinion concerning the strike yesterday appears to interrupt exactly on partisan traces. And once more, I am not curious about persuading individuals alongside partisan traces. I am very on this video being launched as a result of, once more, you recognize, it is a – the visible is 2 males who’re about to go below the waves, noticed for a prolonged time period, shipwrecked sailors killed by america. Once more, not within the fog of warfare, not as a result of they pointed an AK-47 at an American service member, however simply because there was this absurd notion that clinging to a chunk of wooden, they have been nonetheless able to hostilities, which is the authorized query. So, look, I – you recognize, Rick Crawford, my counterpart within the Republican Social gathering, mentioned one thing related. The selections and the interpretations are falling alongside partisan traces. The American individuals must see this. They should see it.
MARTIN: And what would occur once they do? How do you assume that can change the dialog we’re having?
HIMES: Nicely, the explanation that is necessary – you recognize, I’ve mentioned from the start that killing individuals who we now have historically arrested and interdicted is each silly as a result of for those who kill them, you’ll be able to’t interview them to search out out who their bosses are, what the transshipment factors are, what the routes are. However, you recognize, these are criminals. They don’t seem to be terrorists. Terrorists have a political and a strategic goal. Narcotraffickers, as hideous as they’re, are merely attempting to promote a product to Individuals. And so there is a distinction there.
MARTIN: OK.
HIMES: And Individuals want to truly see the visible…
MARTIN: OK.
HIMES: …Of what it’s that we’re doing right here.
MARTIN: Earlier than we allow you to go, as briefly as you’ll be able to, The Washington Put up reported that the protection secretary gave a verbal order to kill everyone on the boat. Did Admiral Bradley communicate to that? What did he say?
HIMES: He did. I requested him very explicitly whether or not that order had been issued, and he mentioned completely not.
MARTIN: Do you consider him?
HIMES: Admiral Bradley is – anybody who’s ever labored with Admiral Bradley is aware of that – says that he’s a person of nice integrity…
MARTIN: OK.
HIMES: …With a storied historical past.
MARTIN: OK.
HIMES: So on condition that, I haven’t got any cause to not.
MARTIN: That is Consultant Jim Himes. He is the highest Democrat on the Home Everlasting Choose Committee on Intelligence. Congressman, thanks a lot.
HIMES: Thanks.
MARTIN: And I do wish to point out, we have invited plenty of Republican colleagues of the congressman to return on this system. That provide nonetheless stands.
Copyright © 2025 NPR. All rights reserved. Go to our web site phrases of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for additional info.
Accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts might fluctuate. Transcript textual content could also be revised to appropriate errors or match updates to audio. Audio on npr.org could also be edited after its authentic broadcast or publication. The authoritative file of NPR’s programming is the audio file.
