Guys, welcome. How’s it going? Nice pleasure to be with you each. Nicely, it’s nice to be with you, Michelle. I missed you final week. Nicely, I’m able to dive again in and get the entire goodies that I missed. I gotta say, I depart city for every week to go to household. And also you two let the federal government shut down and the Nationwide Guard invade Memphis and Chicago. I really feel that is extraordinarily irresponsible. It’s type of unexcusable inexcusable. In a earlier period of period of honor and responsibility, we’d simply resign in disgrace, Michelle. However we’re not in that period anymore, so we’re simply plowing on by means of regardless of our failure. I all the time really feel a way of guilt about every part, Michelle. So now you’ve simply added to my heavy burden. That is simply one other service that I present. Thanks. In order that stated, each developments have me itching for us to speak about President Trump doubling down or I imply, I assume at this level, it’s extra like quadrupling down on treating the U.S. like two completely different even disunited nations. There’s purple America, that are his buddies and his followers. After which there’s blue America, his enemies, the individuals who deserve retribution and the boot of his administration on their necks. Metaphorically talking, after all, not less than thus far. As an example, the federal government shutdown, the place he has vowed to make use of this opening to focus on businesses and areas that Democrats favor. I imply, he’s already X billions of {dollars} of vitality initiatives largely positioned in blue states. And Russell Vought, the top of the OMB, stated that they had been freezing $18 billion in infrastructure funding for New York Metropolis. EJ, what do you make of all this? Nicely, there’s a horrible and type of loopy irony to the truth that we’re having this dialog at a second when the information has been dominated by a peace deal, or not less than a ceasefire deal within the Center East between Israel and Hamas. The discharge of the hostages. And if it comes off, it will likely be a significant Trump achievement. And but you may have this discuss of peace there after which an escalation of the political warfare at house, as you recommend. And it’s a really odd factor to be treating the surface world a method and our personal nation in one other method. And I grew up in Massachusetts. I’m accustomed to political patronage. And yeah, you attempt to assist your facet some while you’re in energy and all of that. However the diploma of punishment that’s occurring right here, I feel it’s very laborious to search out any precedent to this in our historical past. And it’s actually antithetical to how you use in a constitutional Republic. Not persuasion, however stress, not dialog, however intimidation, and never not less than a bit one thing for everyone to a complete I win, you lose type of strategy. And that is bodes very badly for a way we get out of this shutdown, but additionally how we’re going to manipulate ourselves going ahead. I’ve spent a whole lot of time recently studying lots in regards to the 1850s previous the Civil Struggle, once we actually had been bifurcating as a nation. And it is a case the place the management of the nation clearly is attempting to make these divisions deeper. And it’s actually harmful to a free Republic. It’s like you may have the anti-Lincoln within the White Home within the sense that in the event you’re taking a look at his first inaugural handle, he very eloquently eloquently, begged and pleaded that we should not be enemies. We have to be buddies. We should stay buddies. And naturally, that fell on deaf ears. However you’ve bought the precise reverse occurring proper now within the White Home. I feel in the event you’re eager to search for historic parallels, you’re going to go to Purple Scare one and Purple Scare two, Purple Scare one after World Struggle I, Purple Scare two after World Struggle II. Nonetheless, this isn’t a Purple Scare. Undersells it. That is blue scare. In different phrases, what he’s basically saying is it’s not the communists that we’re after, it’s blue America. It’s the entire superstructure of blue America, which they’re placing in that class of the equal of Communist Marxists, they usually’ll use that language. It’s very unusual to me how a lot they’ll say that in the event you name us a fascist, you’re instigating violence. But when we name you a Marxist or a Communist, properly, that’s simply. Simply delivering the reality. Good and laborious. And so it’s turning the entire engines of presidency towards his political opponents. Justifying it to his base, principally by saying these persons are the final word menace to the American experiment. That is Stephen Miller’s fixed rhetoric, fixed rhetoric. And that’s that. In that method, it makes the Purple Scare. It’s worse than the Purple Scare as a result of it’s like Purple Scare metastasized. I agree with that. And I feel there’s once more, to return to the metaphor within the pre-civil warfare Civil Struggle period, the Conservatives have all the time talked about restricted authorities and states’ rights. However as our colleague Jamelle Bouie identified just lately, while you take a look at the interval of 1857 and the Dred Scott choice. You actually had one a part of the nation, on this case, the South, attempting to impose its regime on your entire nation. Northerners who didn’t need to cooperate in any respect with slavery had been being compelled below the Fugitive Slave Act to assist return slaves to the South. And so what you bought now’s, once more, this complete contradiction of claims by conservatives to imagine in native management or states’ rights and claims by conservatives to imagine in restricted authorities. That is limitless government energy over all of the components of the nation you simply don’t like, as a result of they don’t appear to you. So what are the states which might be being focused. What can they do. What ought to they not less than try. Michelle, you’re elevating a very good query. Heavy sigh. That was a really, very heavy sigh. And the explanation for the heavy sigh is we’re in a tricky spot right here and we’re in a tricky spot right here, partially as a result of Congress over generations helped put us on this powerful spot. So in the event you take a look at and I wrote this piece earlier than the Trump administration that we now have to reform America’s most harmful regulation, and what’s the most harmful regulation in America. It’s the Rebellion Act, as a result of in the event you learn this, act rigorously. What you will notice is that it locations the deployment of troops into cities on the president’s discretion. And that is what that is an extremely harmful statute. What may go incorrect? What may go incorrect? What may presumably go incorrect? And that is, although what that is the legacy of generations of belief, of primary background belief positioned in presidents that they will be given authority that they’ll want in case of emergency, break glass in case of emergency authority. And we simply belief them to not abuse it. And there are a whole lot of causes in years previous for invoking the Rebellion Act, for instance, in Reconstruction Period, to attempt to cope with, neo-confederate violence and militia violence within the South, post-reconstruction to assist federal troops have been used Rebellion Act and non Rebellion Act contexts to assist desegregate colleges, for instance and to stop violence throughout the Civil rights period. However that is basically completely different. That is the president deploying troops. And he has not invoked the Rebellion Act but, however using troops below a distinct Title X authority with the Rebellion act in his again pocket, absolutely figuring out that even when the courts block this use, he can pull out that trump card. It’s deeply grievous that we didn’t do something in regards to the Rebellion Act earlier than Trump got here again into energy, and we might very properly pay for that. And so the reply to your query, what can governors do. There’s not lots. There’s not lots, as a result of the elected president of the US has been given for generations the authority to name out troops at his personal discretion by the language of the statute. He hasn’t used that. But he’s used different statutes. However that’s lurking again there. And it implies that the choices which might be accessible to governors, choices which might be accessible to state legislatures, are very restricted. Congress proper now must be rising up. Congress must be responding to this second. And, we all know how that’s going. Yeah I imply, EJ, I’d assume that if we’re relying on this Congress to do something to brief circuit this, we’re most likely in a whole lot of bother. That’s completely proper. I feel since we’re going again into historical past, I feel the largest mistake the founders made, they usually realized it fairly rapidly as a result of they’re those who began the primary celebration system. They wrote a Structure as if political events didn’t exist, as a result of in precept, they didn’t imagine in them. And they also thought the branches of presidency can be so jealous of their very own rights, would have a type of institutional patriotism, a phrase my good friend Norm Ornstein likes to make use of, that institutional battle can be sufficient for one department to examine the opposite. On this circumstance, there isn’t any institutional patriotism occurring in Congress in any respect. It’s a celebration spirit that, for the second, appears ready to assist President Trump on every part. And it’s clearly and perhaps David will disagree with me on this, however I feel that’s clearly infecting the US Supreme Court docket as properly. And so you actually have a type of celebration unity on the Republican facet that enables Trump to do that. And I simply need to underscore, by the best way, that I agree with David. I feel Democrats, after they management the Congress in ‘21 and ‘22 and had President Biden within the White Home ought to have not less than repealed or not less than clarified the phrases of the Rebellion Act and positioned some limits on the president. I believe that there are a whole lot of members who deeply remorse they didn’t attempt to do this. So, David, there’s a authorized struggle brewing over Trump’s makes an attempt to ship troops to Portland. I imply, the place do you see all this going. You historically are the voice of optimism in regards to the courts. Let me put it this fashion. Right here’s a shorthand solution to make sense of the court docket’s jurisprudence. The court docket the place Trumpism intersects with conventional originalism. He tends to win. When it doesn’t, he tends to lose. It’s actually fairly. It’s that straightforward. What I’d say is, let’s wait till the tip of this time period, as a result of a whole lot of stuff bought kicked into this time period. We’ve bought tariff circumstances. We’ve bought, match. We’ve had the Federal Reserve. We now have the extent of the president’s authority to fireplace and workers with out being blocked. We’ve bought a whole lot of issues coming. And I feel lots of people overread these emergency docket choices. However I’ll let you know proper now, what makes me very nervous is for years, Congress pushed a ton of energy into the chief department and tried to place limits on it. And if the speculation is, properly, you’ll be able to’t put limits on the chief’s train of government authority, then we’re in for a rocky experience. We’re in for a rocky experience, except Congress can pull a few of that authority again. And they also don’t appear inclined to do it, although, which they don’t appear inclined to do in any respect. EJ I want I may have David’s confidence within the Supreme Court docket. Perhaps he doesn’t take this view, however I don’t see a shred of originalism within the immunity choice that the court docket issued that went towards our understandings of presidential energy and the boundaries on it going again to the start of the Republic. And each assumption we had is to summarize, the president isn’t above the regulation. I feel that immunity choice broke all kinds of New floor. The notion that the president may simply inform the Justice Division, do that or do this, and it’s O.Ok. And thus we now have the indictment of Jim Commey. I’m undecided I see that as originalism. Right me in the event you assume I’m incorrect, David. Oh, I feel the immunity case was not originalism. And I wrote that and I feel the headline was, the place is the originalism of the originalists in the case of the immunity case. I completely assume that. However I’ll say the immunity case is a rounding error on a rounding error in comparison with the magnitude of the issues that we’re dealing with. All proper. Wait, wait, wait. Earlier than we go too far down the Supreme Court docket path. I need to shift us in a distinct route with these questions on these deployments, particularly sending one state’s Nationwide Guard into one other state. Texas Nationwide Guard troops have been despatched into Chicago, which has led to some fairly nasty exchanges between the governors of Texas and Illinois. And, not less than as of Thursday once we’re taping this, that’s the scenario remains to be fairly tense. What does this do to the psyche of the nation. Like what influence does this have on voters and the best way that Individuals take into consideration the nation. It’s very troubling, particularly in the event you’ve frolicked overseas the place while you had been in sure different nations and also you noticed troops on the streets routinely, you stated, properly, that is the best way I assume issues work right here. Thank God it doesn’t work like that in the US. You’re not accustomed to seeing troops on the bottom. It’s laborious to flee the notion that this isn’t to. That is an effort to routinize and get us accustomed to individuals on the streets. And Governor Pritzker in Illinois may be very frightened that it is a prelude to having troops on the streets throughout the 2026 election and perhaps on election day. Now, we don’t know if that’s true but, however I feel that assertion a 12 months in the past, somebody would say that’s a type of paranoid assertion. I don’t assume it seems so paranoid now. I feel it’s the thought of getting troops on the streets routinely to resolve issues which might be extremely ill-defined. And at a second when truly crime charges are happening and nearly all of the locations he’s sending troops to. Nicely, Chicago had the bottom homicide charge since, I imagine, 1965, earlier than the troops got here. I imply, so nobody would say that every part is okay right here in Chicago. And one mistake that individuals make is attempt to argue that Nationwide Guard troops are descending on some utopia. No, no. Chicago has issues. There’s no query about it. However these issues, lots of them have been on the mend, and I don’t assume it’s laborious to discern what is going on. I feel what is going on, it’s not nothing about that is refined, and particularly while you take a look at the conduct of a few of these federal officers, the conduct specifically of a whole lot of these ICE officers and brokers, they’re being intentionally provocative. In some circumstances, they’re simply committing outright assault on digital camera that somebody’s speaking to them they usually’ll simply spray tear fuel straight into their face. That is the type of factor I assure you. If I used to be strolling down the road and also you had been arguing with me, Michelle and I simply pulled out some bear spray and put it in your face. What I simply assaulted you. That’s assault. I must be arrested. And so I feel what you’re seeing right here is deliberate. Using the army as a deliberate provocation. I feel you’re seeing the usage of the aggressive use of ice having ICE brokers strolling in and reveals of drive. I can actually see out of my window the place they had been strolling a number of days in the past. What you’re taking a look at here’s a provocation. It’s in some ways, it feels as if the specified finish state right here is battle, in order that battle might be met with a harsher response and a harsher response. And it’s being sustained partially by the truth that lots of people in purple America, by means of a whole lot of years of rhetoric, actually imagine when somebody says cities are burning, Portland is a warfare zone. That’s to not say that there aren’t components of Portland the place there hasn’t been violence, however the image that’s being painted is of Fallujah. It’s the image that’s being painted is of Gaza, of Mosul, of simply battle zones. And, and it’s simply outstanding. Nicely, what you guys are speaking about is this type of trickle down effort to divide. So you may have purple state America being informed that cities, blue cities are a hellscape. And blue state America is informed that purple areas are marching towards fascism below MAGA or no matter. And this has to have an imprint on America, proper. It was like when you may have primed your populace to not view one another as disagreeing a lot as evil, that’s going to linger after Trump is gone. Oh, Trump arose partially due to it. In different phrases, when Trump bought got here down the escalator in 2015, he didn’t come down the escalator right into a harmonious political society. He got here into one the place detrimental polarization had already turn out to be an enormous a part of American politics. After which he simply got here in and made all of it a lot worse, to the purpose the place for an terrible lot of Individuals, you’re considered with suspicion and anger in the event you don’t hate the opposite facet. And I do know that our flesh pressers get this on a regular basis, that after they go house they usually go house to their house districts, they’re uncovered to a relentless barrage from essentially the most radicalized members of their neighborhood. Combat, struggle, struggle I hate them. I hate them. Combat, struggle, struggle. And so this sense of hatred, this mutual hatred and the numbers are scary in the event you interview dedicated partisans on both facet, the quantity of hatred they’ve for one another may be very terrifying to the purpose the place going again to a number of the dysfunction about Congress. Sure, Madison thought that, say, Mike Johnson would say, hey, I’m the Speaker of the Home. I’m not a potted plant. I’m not Donald Trump’s subordinate. However even when he had that thought, he additionally is aware of that even the Speaker of the Home will lose his major if he defies the president, and that that’s how dedicated partisans are to this stage of fight. And in Republican land, the place I’m most acquainted, in case you are not opposing the Democrats 100% of the time and supporting Trump 100% of the time, your electoral observe file over the past 10 years is abysmal. And in order that lengthy course of has purged the G.O.P. of virtually anybody who, not less than in the meanwhile, is prepared to withstand Trump. Arise for the humanity of their political opponents. It’s a really darkish time, a really darkish place to play out that tape. What occurs is Trump retains polarizing us for the following three years. I agree, clearly, with a whole lot of what David has simply stated about what’s occurred contained in the Republican Celebration. However would you each forgive me if I introduced up not less than some optimistic information, or not less than some moderating information. Please, please, all the time. As a result of I feel one of many placing issues in regards to the polling that you just’re seeing is even amongst Individuals who might agree with a few of Trump’s goals, they persistently assume he’s gone too far, that he’s. They don’t like these strategies. You see that in attitudes on immigration the place persons are glad. The Southern border is actually closed, however they are saying detrimental issues about his immigration coverage. They don’t like troops within the cities. And so that you’ve bought substantial majorities. You’ve solely bought about 25 p.c who strongly approve of Trump. What that tells you is that out within the nation, there may be this actual uneasiness with the radicalism of many of those steps, such because the troops within the metropolis that Trump is engaged in. And I feel that’s why you’re seeing governors like Pritzker taking a really sturdy stand towards what Trump is doing in Chicago, as a result of I feel he is aware of, positive, the MAGA base will denounce him, however I feel there are a whole lot of Individuals who, when he says these troops don’t belong right here, they’re quietly nodding their heads. Even when they’re not Democrats, I don’t know what worth the president pays for this and whether or not the value won’t be paid till 2026. If then. However I feel he’s paying a worth in public opinion for the radicalism. So right here’s what I fear about as a result of I’m I’m the skunk on the backyard celebration persistently is that the partisans are actually engaged, however that huge mushy group that tunes out politics and doesn’t actually listen. The nastier it will get, the extra seemingly they’re to only tune out the noise altogether. Keep house and in order that simply leaves your entire nation on the mercy of the extremists. I feel, Michelle, you’re precisely proper. There may be such a factor because the exhausted majority. This can be a supermajority of Individuals, greater than 60 p.c of Individuals who’re disgusted with politics as they exist. The issue is that they’re very laborious to mobilize as a result of the important thing phrase within the phrase exhausted majority is exhausted, and the present second solely makes them extra exhausted, extra prepared to push again. I imply, to step again. I really feel their ache. I do. I really feel it. Oh, I completely do as properly. However what which means is the extremely partisan wings basically simply dominate all discourse till every election cycle. And I feel that what MAGA goes to be taught is that the MAGA goes to be taught one thing that the far left realized within the late 2010s, transferring within the early 2020s, that a whole lot of your success in a web based aggression and shaming and mobbing and attacking and an intolerance may be very non permanent and illusory as a result of the vast majority of individuals don’t like these sorts of ways, they usually’re going to over time, punish a facet that they see as bullying individuals as being extraordinarily merciless and illiberal, and a whole lot of MAGA seems at a number of the cancel tradition heyday of the late 2010s and says, Oh, we will do this, and we’ll do it higher, and we’ll do it extra successfully, and we’ll do it from the Oval Workplace down. However the professional free speech place over the long run in American historical past is a really majority place. Any given particular person second you is perhaps reducing towards the grain. However over time, the professional free speech place is a majority American place. And I feel MAGA is making a large mistake in taking the previous the entire cancel tradition discourse of 2019, 2020 and saying, oh, we’ll simply do that increasingly aggressively, and that’s going to work for us. I’m becoming a member of you from a convention on nationwide service the place a whole lot of good individuals, together with individuals from each events, Governor Spencer Cox of Utah is right here. Denver Mayor Mike Johnston, a Democrat, is right here, they usually mirror a type of civic life within the nation. Individuals who do good issues in native communities and in neighborhoods. And the thought is to attempt to have a a lot to revive the service motion, to have extra individuals engaged in fixing native issues and lifting individuals up across the nation. And that’s why I feel the notion that each one our discourse will inevitably be dominated solely by individuals with very excessive views, I feel that can change into incorrect. And it’s even turning out to be incorrect proper now. Positive, in the event you go on components of social media, that’s what you’ll see. However thank God we’re not but on the level the place actual life is like social media. I feel there may be civic life on the market within the nation that’s attempting to determine how do you progress, make some progress on this terrible local weather. I hate being like this since you sound pollyannaish. I’m as frightened as I’ve ever been in my life, however I haven’t given up on the civic sense that exists amongst an terrible lot of Individuals throughout a whole lot of our political strains. Not all, however a whole lot of them. So that you introduced up Spencer Cox in Utah, and we’ve talked about another governors, and I’m a enduring cheerleader for governors, who I all the time assume should be a bit bit extra pragmatic and bipartisan than their colleagues in Washington. But it surely sounds such as you guys are hopeful that the following president, whether or not it’s a governor or some unknown or the Washington gamers can knit us again collectively, that this isn’t an irretrievably damaged scenario. Nicely, now, I’ll go darkish on you actual fast and say, we have to ensure that we now have free and honest elections in 2026 and 2028. We’ve bought a whole lot of work to do now to maintain the Democratic Republic intact. So these choices exist. And so President Trump doesn’t run for a 3rd time period as a few of his individuals have floated. So I’d put that on the desk. However then my reply is Sure. I feel there are lots of people on the market pondering, how can we restore, not solely restore the harm, however to make use of a phrase that I want we may use extra. It was utilized by President Biden, however construct again higher actually must be the theme for what occurs after 2028. We should always not. We must be comforted by historical past, however not an excessive amount of. So what would consolation us about historical past is that we’ve had snap backs. We’ve bounced again after repressive intervals in American historical past. Who was the following president elected after Richard Nixon. Corrupt imperial presidency. A Baptist Sunday college instructor like that’s a zig zag away from the zig zag of Richard Nixon, proper. Love that thermostatic citizens. Yeah proper. And so we now have had snap again occasions all through American historical past. That’s one of many the reason why America is a significantly better place proper now, even with all of our issues than it was in 1925 or what it was in 1825? However we will’t presume from the truth that we all the time survived earlier than that we’ll all the time survive sooner or later. I imply, take into consideration the Civil Struggle. I imply, arguably, if Joshua Chamberlain doesn’t repair bayonets on day two of Gettysburg on Little Spherical high, it’s an entire completely different historical past. And so the American experiment is a intently run factor, even in sure different circumstances. There was a snap again after Woodrow Wilson jailed an entire bunch of political opponents, lots of of political opponents. We had a snapback. Despite the fact that you wouldn’t put FDR anyplace within the class of a Woodrow Wilson. Folks had been so frightened after he received 4 presidential elections that they amended the Structure to time period restrict presidents. We do have snapback moments. I do assume we can have one if we will grasp on. I imagine in these two. I feel we often find yourself taking extra steps ahead than again. However typically the snapback can take a really very long time. And the one which involves thoughts is Jim Crow. We had monumental progress towards racial equality throughout Reconstruction that led to 1877. It took us. Jim Crow was dominant for about 80 years earlier than we lastly efficiently pushed it again within the Civil Rights motion. So yeah, I feel we want hope in our means to snap again and keep in mind that we might should struggle actual laborious if we’re going to snap again rapidly. On that cautionary be aware, let’s land this airplane. Earlier than we go, although. I have to get everyone’s suggestions for the week EJ, you had been warned to return packing. You bought a suggestion for us? I do certainly, I. I’ve been fully transfixed by a 19-year-old jazz pianist referred to as Brandon Goldberg, who performs as if he’s an previous grasp of the style. If you wish to examine him on the market, he did an album at Dizzy’s Membership. right here in New York, the place I’m at present. However listening to somebody and there have been a bunch of younger individuals on the market who’re doing nice issues in jazz, and this makes me glad. O.Ok, David? So I concern I’m going to let listeners down, Michelle, as a result of I’m usually your streaming guru. I’ve bought a tv suggestion each week as a result of I’m an influence client. No, I’ve bought a e-book suggestion. What? I’m a sci-fi nerd. I’ve been in search of a very good sci-fi sequence to take my consideration after the expanse ended, which was additionally, by the best way, nice tv present on Amazon Prime and the identical people who introduced you the expanse sequence, which is a near-future sci-fi sequence set within the photo voltaic system, have introduced you a brand new sequence, and e-book one known as “The Mercy of Gods,” and it’s set in a people settled planet encounter with overwhelmingly highly effective alien intelligence. And it’s simply actually good. It’s nice world constructing, it’s nice character constructing. And so in case you are I there’s a subset of our viewers that’s sci-fi nerds. I hear from them, they ask me for ideas, and that is my suggestion. “The Mercy of God” is incredible. O.Ok, I’ll watch for the sequence as a result of I don’t learn sci-fi. I watch sci-fi. However the studying sci-fi is a bridge too far. So I’m stepping into a distinct route and I’m going with a meals suggestion. I feel individuals ought to dip a toe into the Dubai chocolate craze. You guys know what that is. Sure no clue. No clue, no clue. So I like my chocolate. I’m a type of explicit snob about chocolate, and I’ve to say, that is one thing that I used to be late to in 2021. This firm within the U.A.E. got here up with a chocolate bar. It’s like this chunky sweet bar that’s chocolate coating this inside mush of pistachios and crispy shredded pastries. Inside two years, it had gone viral on social media and has taken off in every single place. So now you will get it at Dealer Joe’s and Walmart. And it began spreading out into different meals. IHOP launched these as pancakes. There are croissants. Apparently they had been all the fad Dubai model Russian Easter desserts. They’ve precipitated a pistachio scarcity amongst some in keeping with some pistachio firms. And since that is how dedicated I’m to this present, I purchased a number of completely different manufacturers. I will likely be expensing all of them. Good my analysis is taking that bullet and consuming tons of Dubai chocolate, however I would like individuals to get in on this earlier than it jumps the shark and goes all pumpkin spice the place you’ve bought Dubai chocolate hummus and chili Dubai chocolate. So Starbucks espresso, Skip the Starbucks espresso and the IHOP pancakes that had been round and simply exit and not less than type of savor the second, as you had been speaking, Michelle, I bear in mind I noticed these tales and I ended studying them as a result of I feared. And now you’ve confirmed it, that I’d run out and eat method too lots of these issues. However Thanks on your dedication to our readers, our listeners, that bullet. So that you don’t should. I’m style testing. I’ll report again with my grading scale. However I feel with that guys we’re going to depart it there. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us, David. All the time a pleasure. I’ll see you guys later. Thanks, Michelle.
