Justin Woodward began out as one of many small cogs within the huge wheel of the sport business. He studied sport artwork and design in faculty. Then he acquired a job at a triple-A sport firm as a 3D background artist.
However he determined he would quite be a sport designer as a substitute of being one amongst many 3D artists. He began his personal graphic design studio, doing duties like brand design that might join him with entrepreneurs. He discovered the best way to fund initiatives and create companies. He went on to create an indie sport studio. He stayed on that path.
He ultimately began The MIX, the Media Indie Trade, to assist sport startups get seen at huge occasions just like the Recreation Builders Convention. He picked up loads of experience alongside the way in which and now opinions greater than 700 pitches a yr whereas looking for the very best startups that deserve consideration. In our session at GamesBeat Summit 2025, we did a fireplace chat about his experiences. And we delved into the hidden ways in which builders can discover cash, whether or not it’s by way of Kickstarter, platform firms, publishers, VCs and different means.
Right here’s an edited transcript of our interview.
GamesBeat: Our session immediately is “Recreation Funding Diversification for Indies.” I’m glad to be right here with Justin Woodward, who has a protracted historical past within the sport business. I’ll have him undergo a few of it right here. Are you able to discuss to us about how you bought going within the indie house?
Justin Woodward: I’ve been within the sport business for about 15 years now. I went to school for sport artwork and design. Went to triple-A shortly after that as a 3D background artist. After that I actually didn’t–throughout that point I actually didn’t dig being a 3D artist. I needed to be a designer. That’s what I went to highschool for, and a producer. As I began to determine my very own path, I began a graphic design studio the place I used that to do graphic design, web sites and brand designs, for entrepreneurs, with a view to learn to fund initiatives, learn to create companies, that sort of factor. After which proper round that point, once I began the graphic design enterprise, I began a grasp’s program in sport manufacturing administration. I began an impartial sport studio.
He stayed on that path and acquired to satisfy loads of mentors within the sport business.
GamesBeat: When did you encounter that first must go and get one thing from any person?
Woodward: I used to be tremendous broke. I used to be sleeping on the ground throughout my grasp’s program. I used to be trying into what it takes to get angel funding. This was 2009, round that point. Kickstarter had simply began. We have been one of many first Kickstarters, and we failed, which was very fascinating. However each time there was a possibility, we used that pitch to push it additional. All the oldsters that took me below their wing, I used their mentorship to study extra.
On the time–I grew up in San Diego. There was Excessive Moon Studios. Rockstar San Diego. PlayStation, Sony San Diego. Considered one of my mentors was Clint Keith, who was form of the grandfather of agile scrum. He took me to management workshops, when you bear in mind–they’d this stuff referred to as management boards. He would take me and I’d work with people from EA, Ubisoft, all of those totally different triple-A firms, instructing them agile scrum. I’d study that as I used to be instructing, after which he was introducing me to people. I used to be a giant fan of Oddworld Inhabitants. I acquired to satisfy Lorne Lanning, which was tremendous loopy to me. In individual. He was such a cool man. I acquired the boldness to really feel like I might do that.
GamesBeat: Who was the one who first gave you a break by way of funding cash?
Woodward: We have been pitching the identical sport. We tried Kickstarter. Then we moved on to Nexon. Nexon was attempting to get into indie stuff. Then this factor opened up referred to as the IGN Indie Open Home, across the finish of 2010 and into 2011. I didn’t have cash to go. I used to be in San Diego with my beat-up outdated Nissan Altima, sleeping on the ground. Considered one of my mentors, who I met–she was from Venezuela. I used to be modifying movies for her. She stated, “Should you take this chance to go as much as San Francisco and get in, I’ll mortgage you $2,000 to cowl it.”
We ended up on one of many management discussion board journeys, which was fascinating. I used to be already in San Francisco. I linked with the oldsters at IGN and stated, “I’m on the town. Can I meet you in individual and pitch you?” They beloved the thought. They principally gave me per week. “It’s a must to decide to come back up right here in per week.” I went to Alicia and went to Clint and stated, “What do you suppose I ought to do?” Clint stated, “It’s a must to take the bull by the balls and make this occur.” Alicia stated she’d give me the $2,000. We packed our stuff and drove as much as the bay. We didn’t know what would occur, something like that. I used to be capable of persuade IGN to let me write weblog items for my faculty for an extra $2,000 a month. That helped me pay for it.
We confirmed the pitch at GDC. We had a bunch of individuals come and take a look at the sport. Then Alicia turned the primary investor. She invested $40,000. Adam Boyes, earlier than he was at PlayStation, was taking me to Capcom and Konami and all these totally different locations to pitch. I began getting the boldness to pitch. The subsequent factor , the subsequent step was I acquired a cope with Grownup Swim Video games. That pushed it excessive. That’s once I actually understood the best way to get my grounding in funding.
GamesBeat: What have been some observations in regards to the indie ecosystem that you simply encountered over time? San Francisco in some methods turned a Mecca for indies, however residing bills acquired so excessive that indies have been priced out of the town. They needed to go additional out into Oakland and different elements of the bay. There’s all the time been this bigger sample that’s affected indies and decided whether or not or not they’re viable.
Woodward: It was very fascinating throughout that point. You’d see this while you have been within the enterprise lengthy sufficient, see the cycles of the place issues are going. On the time social gaming was the factor. Everybody was doing Fb video games.
GamesBeat: That was the precise cause GamesBeat and its first convention took off. Corporations like Zynga had come on the scene, and everybody who was competing with them. All these social gaming people have been there. I’d left my job pondering I’d by no means cowl video games once more. I went to VentureBeat to cowl startups, and there have been no gaming startups on the time. However hastily social gaming got here alongside.
Woodward: There was a bizarre transition within the time with the arrival of social gaming, and likewise indie improvement. For the IGN Indie Open Home, for instance–GameSpy, which was a publication on the time, additionally did backend multiplayer work. They labored with Iron Galaxy and lots of others. That was their Indie Open Home accelerator. They have been attempting to get info for indies about what’s subsequent. They felt that indies could be the subsequent huge factor, which they have been. Tremendous Meat Boy was blowing up. There have been all these big breakouts within the indie house, alongside know-how like Unity turning into well-liked. Unreal was working for indies. It created this landmark occasion.
San Francisco was undoubtedly a Mecca for that. When social gaming noticed loads of layoffs, because the business was transferring towards cellular–in the event that they didn’t make that shift, there have been loads of wonderful, gifted builders who needed to begin their very own studios.
GamesBeat: Typically everybody questions whether or not that new development goes to take off or not. But when it impressed all these buyers to pour cash into the sport business, it turned out to be factor. Get that cash, take that cash, and do what you can with it. Social gaming was a technique. Cellular gaming was a technique. In additional trendy occasions we’ve had blockchain gaming. All this stuff save loads of sport firms from going below, even when typically they didn’t need to do a blockchain sport or one thing like that. It’s fascinating that that development has all the time been there.
There’s all the time been this concern, too, that everybody has had across the “indie apocalypse.” Did you are feeling that? Did you ever imagine in that?
Woodward: I all the time thought it was BS. Everybody’s afraid of all these items, however it’s a must to know the best way to–I hustle. It’s a must to know the best way to transfer round. As you simply stated, each time there’s a wave, you possibly can experience that wave for funding. Across the time once we have been beginning, it was proper when the PS4 was getting its toes. They wanted content material. It was taking so lengthy for them to make first-party video games. The budgets have been ballooning, and the time it took. They jumped into indie. They began to put money into indie. PlayStation was dropping checks for round $200,000.
Each wave has this. You have been speaking about blockchain, which was fascinating as properly. That has additionally shifted now. Blockchain fell off, and funding goes again into conventional net 2.0. You simply need to know the best way to experience these waves.
GamesBeat: We’ve to reside as much as the billing of our session right here. The place is the cash now? The place is the hidden cash?
Woodward: It’s a must to know the place to look. That’s fairly apparent. However I simply talked about blockchain. A number of people who had blockchain cash, they nonetheless have that cash, however they’re seeking to make investments it in several methods. A number of publishers acquired purchased up by Embracer and Xbox and so forth. A few of these firms acquired let go. Saber Interactive purchased themselves out. They’re now seeking to put money into smaller initiatives, as a result of earlier than that implosion, their initiatives have been round $15-30 million. Now they’ve let go of those big initiatives. They’re keen to put money into video games which are nearer to the $1-2 million vary. Clearly there needs to be due diligence for this, but when builders could make a sport for $250,000 to $500,000, that’s additionally a market the place they’re keen to make a guess that’s not so big.
Corporations with IP have been keen to make bets. We simply launched a sport with Nickelodeon, a Rugrats sport, in October. That was a smaller indie model of title with a giant identify. Shortly after they noticed what we did, Paramount began to fund extra impartial initiatives. A number of this has been popping up. Platforms, totally different funds–
GamesBeat: Meta put some huge cash into VR video games.
Woodward: Precisely.
GamesBeat: How would you price a few of these alternative ways of getting cash? You talked about Kickstarter. There are platform firms, publishers, VCs. The place do you go first?
Woodward: It is determined by the place you’re at along with your studio and your expertise, and likewise your relationships. Unbiased publishers, that looks like guess, in addition to platforms. In case you have marketing strategy and you’re feeling such as you’re going to be making a VC 10X-plus, then it is sensible to gravitate your sport and your pitch towards that–I’m going to say it’s a sport. Each time you talk with a funder, it’s a must to perceive the vernacular. How do you talk with them? They’re in search of sure issues that others aren’t.
An impartial writer like Uncooked Fury or Devolver, they’re in search of creativity and expertise. They’re in search of your subsequent three video games. Whereas VCs they’re in search of the cash. How is that this going to earn a living? That additionally rides waves, like AI. VCs are in search of AI. Beforehand it was blockchain. Each wave, they’re going to be in search of sure issues to put money into, as a result of they’re investing in a number of studios. That’s one other factor to contemplate. Are you attempting to fund your studio in the long run, or are you attempting to fund one undertaking? That’s additionally going to find out the place a developer desires to go.
GamesBeat: In what capability are you in search of video games? What do you search for among the many indies?
Woodward: I sort of skipped previous this, however I run The MIX, the Media Indie Trade. As I began my studio in San Francisco, I noticed that there was a necessity for builders to get in touch with publishers, buyers, and press. In 2012 I teamed up with some people and we ran this occasion out of the IGN workplaces. We had an incredible group of individuals. We had Towerfall and Retro Metropolis Rampage, some huge indies that confirmed up. It was packed. The subsequent yr I referred to as it The MIX. It was even larger. It was tremendous grassroots. There was a line wrapped across the IGN constructing till we couldn’t even slot in there. We needed to get different services. We began doing E3 and that kind of factor.
Now we do 4 or 5 exhibits a yr. We’ve one developing through the Summer season Recreation Fest. We’ve a web-based occasion and an in-person occasion. Now that that is my enterprise, we now have an obligation to our companions – one, the builders, two, the press, after which three, our sponsors – to have extraordinarily good content material. Any time we now have an occasion, I look by way of, with my staff, round 700 video games. Throughout a yr I’ll most likely look by way of 1,500 video games or extra. It’s fascinating to see the totally different traits taking place. Once I’m speaking to builders, I’m saying, “It’s a must to do one thing extraordinarily totally different.” Should you’re attempting to do one other roguelike Metroidvania, you’re misplaced within the shuffle irrespective of how good it appears to be like.
GamesBeat: What sort of video games are getting traction?
Woodward: Extra emergent gameplay, the place it doesn’t take as lengthy to develop the sport, however each time you play it’s totally different. That’s the roguelike style, in a manner, however what’s your twist on it? How are you constructing your neighborhood? That sort of factor.
GamesBeat: Eager about various sources, are there any we haven’t talked about but? Or is the cash actually not there proper now? I see some publishers coming again. Acclaim simply arrange store once more below Alex Joseph. A number of years in the past there have been one thing like 30 publishers that had gone out of enterprise. When a writer goes down they take so many builders down with them.
Woodward: I additionally helped to run the Humble Black Recreation Developer Fund for 4 years, the place we funded builders’ prototypes. Humble Video games–Ziff-Davis didn’t need to deal in that kind of enterprise anymore, so Humble Video games shut down. What occurs to all of the expertise there? Now there’s a holding firm taking good care of them. It’s very fascinating. The factor about it that’s cool, although–none of that’s cool so far as firms tanking, however for example, Versus Evil was purchased by TinyBuild. They purchased various firms proper earlier than the crash. These gifted individuals who ran these studios are nonetheless on the market. Now personal buyers need to put money into these folks. They’ve cash. However they’re privately in search of funds. It’s a must to construct your community and perceive the place these people are at, what they’re in search of, and what ‘s on the market.
GamesBeat: We’ve had actual successes. Some triple-A video games have failed, however they depart a gap out there. Indies have moved in to take their place within the final couple of years. Helldivers 2, Palworld, Balatro. We’ve seen numerous video games with a single developer behind them, like Animal Properly. What do you suppose is going on as you take a look at the patterns there?
Woodward: I undoubtedly suppose there’s a gap out there, particularly within the center, the double-An area. Instruments are permitting builders to make double-A experiences, giant experiences on decrease budgets. Additionally, for the reason that world is opening up so far as communication–it’s all the time been there, however now you can work with builders in Brazil, in Indonesia, within the Philippines, that sort of factor. You possibly can have a simpatico relationship the place it’s not simply transactional. That’s opened up the potential for making video games very lean and really rapidly. A number of impartial builders fail after they’re attempting to compete with market costs and that sort of factor, quite than negotiating how they’re doing enterprise with distributors and the oldsters they work with. Actually conserving it lean to flip that for a win. The delayed gratification of being an entrepreneur is actual. You don’t need to increase $2 million and pay your self $350,000. I’ve seen that sort of factor occur.
GamesBeat: I simply got here again from Gamescom Latam in Brazil. There have been 130,000 folks on the present. I met with a number of startups there. Newzoo places them at about $7.7 billion in income out of the $180 billion or so for the entire sport business. It’s a smaller a part of the market, however it’s rising at 6% a yr. The U.S. is rising at solely .5% per yr or so. Wanting on the Convoy knowledge for the primary quarter, there have been zero offers between VCs and anybody in South America. Likewise there was nothing in Australia and nothing in Africa. All the cash went into Asia, Europe, and the USA.
I see a disconnect right here. This is without doubt one of the fastest-growing areas on the earth for video games. It has a vibrant indie market. But no one is placing cash into it. The cash financing no matter is going on in Latin America is all homegrown. That appears loopy.
Woodward: If anybody is investing, they need to put money into these studios. We’re working with a studio proper now, one in all our companions, and so they’re doing wonderful work in full manufacturing. At The MIX we work with builders everywhere in the world – Europe, Latin America, Southeast Asia. We see so many nice video games now. The Latin American Recreation Showcase, David Lucio is working that. There are such nice video games developing there that at the moment are at The MIX or in Day of the Devs or any of those showcases, as a result of they’re prime notch. That’s the place issues are going to go. If buyers are good, they’re going to begin trying there. I do know there are loads of taxes and rules and hoops it’s a must to bounce by way of. It prices a bit extra when you’re working with people in, say, Brazil.
GamesBeat: If there are methods for underrepresented communities and sport builders from these communities to get funding–is there recommendation you’d have on that entrance?
Woodward: From The MIX, I additionally began a nonprofit referred to as Expertise Studios, which has a fund, the XP Fund. We ran an accelerator with Netflix Video games to assist black builders. The nonprofit can be doing enterprise as Black Voices in Gaming. We’ve a neighborhood that works with tons {of professional} builders. A number of it’s simply entry. Entry to networks. Realizing the place the funds are. Being ready to do these pitches. However the expertise is similar. Discovering the cash is similar. There could also be extra funding choices, like by way of our program. A number of this has dried up as a result of political local weather.
Xbox has accomplished loads within the house. We work with them for his or her DAP program, the Developer Acceleration Program. They’ve been doing issues behind the scenes for years that folks didn’t find out about. These are the oldsters you need to discuss to. Likewise PlayStation has had one thing behind the scenes. They’re not blasting it out to the world, however they’re funding initiatives from underrepresented devs.
